Now I bet there are some out there that have prayed for a dying loved one and have watched them still die. After thinking on that you also came to the conclusion that you prayed in faith and they still died. So did God then lie?Now I do not believe it was the will of God that death came into the world at least not for humans. The more deterministic camp says so but then they have God being the author of sin and evil and that is out because the Bible is pretty clear God is not the author of these things; He fights them.
Another option is that God knew evil would come and created the world anyway -- makes Him still the author of evil because once He creates the world evil and death are going to come. He still caused them because He could have stopped them by not creating the world in the first place or creating a world where the possibility of evil could not exist.
A third option is God only knew evil as a possibility. This is known as the open view or open theist position (the one I hold) where God sees evil as a possible but not inevitable end, because He has given Mankind a choice. Eat the tree --'death and evil'; don't eat the tree ' no death and no evil'. Both possibilities exist even in God mind and He is ready for either one. Mankind blows it so God begins to work against evil and redeem us from it and it's consequences. God is only responsible for creating the possibility of evil but did not actually create evil or suffering, they are simply the product of the disobedience of the human race.
Now in this evil world God still lets us talk to him and request things from him through prayer, but because of the evil unleashed things are still going to have multiple possibilities and because we still get carnal from time to time we can very much think we are right with God even though we are not. Evil and sin are always there to possibly screw things up.
Two great passages on prayer are both found in James: 4:1-6 and 5:13-18
James 4:1-6 actually offers up several conditions to answered prayer: 1) You have to ask, 2) You must not have wrong motives in particular that we are praying to consume the results on our own lusts with worldly gain of any type, and 3) You must pray in humility. That is in submission to God's desires. Now that is from God perspective, not ours.
James 5:13-18 was a favorite of many when I was in the Pentecostal church. Particularly, the part that says: "and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick...". There was always a heavy emphasis on the WILL part, but once again the conditions were often overlooked 1) calling for the elders of the church 2) anointing with oil but even here the meaning of this is subject to debate -- it could be anoint like in pour on the head or like in the case of the Good Samaritan where oil was used in a medicinal sense. 3) Do it in the name of the Lord -- humility again -- it is His authority not your own. 4) Offer the prayer in faith (Note: this is not the only condition to answered prayer as some would claim). 5)Based on verse 16 there is also confess your sins to one another and prayer for each other.
Given all these conditions one thing is for sure, you are not going to get an answer to prayer just by praying -- there is a lifestyle of holiness, community and faith that must be lived as well. There is also being the part of a church with a trust level high enough where confession of sin to each other is not only possible but brings about forgiveness. Not to mention that there are many other verses in the Bible that offer up conditions to answered prayer.
What this ultimately means is a prayer offers a possibility to God, one which He can choose to take or not to take depending on the spiritual condition of the person praying and their relationship to Him and the church. Praying does not force God's hand it simply gives Him one more thing to choose, but not a possibility that He must to choose.
In prayer, what I think is often forgotten is that God is the one in charge and we really can't tell Him what to do but we can petition Him. How he fulfils His Word is strictly up to Him.
Part 2 - The Lord's Prayer
If access to God in prayer is granted according to holiness and good deeds, then how are the prayers of a sinner who seeks a savior ever heard? I am of the opinion that "all" prayers both the "asking" and the "receiving" portions are a gift of "grace".
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your conclusions which trend toward God's sovereignty.
When you get time, you might enjoy reading one of my blog posts. http://unrepentantberean.blogspot.com/2009/05/steroids.html Let me know what you think.
I think there is a great deal of difference between a sinner coming to repentence and a saint going to God and petitioning for something. It is always God's desire to see sinner come to repentance but it is not His will to reward the sinning saint or even the righteous saint if granting that request is done outside what God's will is. By not answering prayer God can teach lessons. I tihnk the passages above are very clear particularly 4:1-6 that sometimes we do not receive what we ask for because we ask amiss.
ReplyDeleteI will get to grace in a later installment of this series but simply put -- I think it is very easy to play the 'grace' card when it comes to answered and unanswered prayer.
A petition is a petition... If God treats a sinner's plea with grace, and treats a saint's prayer with conditions, then God shows favortism. Furthermore, what advantage is there in being saved? I might as well stay a sinner, since God will hear my prayer unconditionally. Wouldn't it be better to be a sinner whose prayers are heard, than a saint whose prayers are ignored?
ReplyDeleteKC,
ReplyDeleteIf God in his Word says there is conditions to answered prayer, and he does here in James,then there is conditions to answered prayer. God is not showing favaorism. I think you are making a leap in lagic I would not make -- The sinner is only heard when he repents, I did not say that a sinner is heard every time he prays for everything, simply repentance. God hears the prayers of his saints and considerers them, the only time I believe a sinner prayers are heard is in regards to redemption or leading to redemption. The saint can come boldy into God throneroom because of grace but that does not means God will always grant their request. Unless you are saying saints always get what they request.
Once again -- it is very easy to play the 'grace' card and cover any issue with it like some broad stroke brush. If the Bible says I don't get an answer because I have asked amiss (James 4:3)then I haven not met a BIBLICAL condition for answered prayer.