The Bible and Nakedness -- Part 7 -- Women's Breasts

I suppose that one might argue that I seem to have a fascination with this topic and maybe an obsession. I could argue -- "Yeah, I am a guy. Get over it, guys are fascinated with the subject." What I don't think most Christian men and women understand about this issue is that it is a current issue. One State of the United States, New York already has a law about this subject -- anywhere a man can appear without a top so can a woman. Similar laws exist in in about 7 other states in certain situations (beaches and other areas). In Europe, there are many places where a woman can appear topless -- the fact is Europeans don't have as many hang ups about nudity in general as we do in the US. Many local cities, towns, etc. have their own laws because most states leave the issue to local government to deal with on their own. For instance Columbus, OH has a very similar law to the one in New York state. The point is in certain places a Christian can be walking down the street and see a woman topless (or topfree if you prefer) and they really can't call the cops -- in fact calling the cops in New York can get you and the cops sued. So what do you do? You can't avoid everything.

I all states and places though the problem is that a woman is only considered indecent if she shows her nipples. That still leaves a lot of room on a woman's breast.

At this point in going through Bible I am looking for how the Bible refers to nakedness. In the issue of women's breasts at this point I would have to say the Bible is silent other than a few references to nursing. Now as we get past David and begin to look at the rest of the Bible -- nothing till the book of Job. The fact is the poetic literature of the Bible has a lot to say about the subject of women's breasts. Job makes mention of them, Song of Solomon as well (9 separate verses). Job makes mention of the motherly aspects of women's breasts. No sexual connotation at all. Song of Solomon is a different story.

In the context of Song of Solomon, the subject is the desire the couple has for each other. In chapters 1-7 the mention of breasts is one of admiration. That is the man is admiring his future bride's breasts and commenting on them. In short, he is saying his bride has a nice pair. 8:1 mentions the motherly aspects of women's breasts again much like Job. In Chapter 8 verses 8 and 10 the woman in the story mentions her own breasts as a symbol of her virtue -- she has kept her virginity to her wedding night referring to her breast as acting like towers. In this case they are symbolic of her virtue but it is not mentioned how that is so other than to say she was not a women who just put out for anyone. Probably no one has touched them. Seen them? Well it does not say.

What can be said at this point when dealing with the subject of the Bible and women's breasts:

1. When women's breasts are mentioned, the most common reference is to nursing or the motherly aspect of the breasts or women. It is about nurturing.

2. In Song of Solomon we have an unmarried couple and the man makes continued reference to how much he admires -- not only his future wife's body but her breasts in particular. Wonder how he knew what all this looked like in a middle eastern culture? So is admiration a sin? Not with these verses -- they got into the Bible and no sin is mentioned.

3. In all cases, it is never stated that a woman showing her breasts is sinful or shameful. if anything the virtues of women's breasts are set forward and they are not presented in a negative light.

Next: Job and Isaiah Naked.

Is Hell Justified? -- Part 2 -- Greg Boyd and Eternal Punishment -- Video 1

The context for this part of the discussion watch Greg Boyd in this video

Luke 16:19-31 provided the backdrop of the discussion. Now I think this story does not actually recount what heaven and hell are like but it is a reinforcement of the Jewish idea of Sheol or the grave. The waiting place for final judgment. It has some marked differences from the idea of eternal fire in Revelation. Here the people are placed in waiting placed and punished or rewarded based on what their life was like on earth. In Revelation, this idea does not appear at all but their the eternal fire has a finality to it based on whoever is in the Lamb's book of life. So Boyd gets off a little wrong in my opinion because I don't believe this story is dealing with the final state after final judgment but a holding place in waiting for final judgment. However he does an excellent job of presenting the problem with traditional thinking on eternal punishment.

Boyd brings up the standard questions in objection to eternal punishment:
1. How can we enjoy heaven when right down the road are people being tortured in flame that I may love and am called to love?
2. How is eternal punishment consistent with the theme that God's anger lasts only for a moment but his love and mercy lasts forever?
3. How is eternal punishment consistent with the teaching God is love?
4. How is eternal punishment consistent with the Bible's teaching regarding God's final victory?

As I watched these points being brought up I can see myself asking the same questions. The issues here are well presented and will serve as the basis for his and our further discussion.

Next: Greg Boyd Video 2

The Book of Revelation -- Part 10 -- Interlude and 144,000 sealed.

The Vision of the Lamb opening the Seals is interrupted because the final seal on the scroll will usher in a great woe and there is a need for a few actions to take place first. Nothing is to be harmed until the chosen of God are sealed.

The next thing that happens is the sealing of 144,000 Jews -- note to you Jehovah's witnesses it says those of the tribes of Israel not of the Jehovah's witnesses. One weird thing -- the half tribe of Manasseh (part of the line of Joseph) is listed but Ephraim is not but replaced with the tribe of Joseph. I wonder if John considered them the same. The other weird thing -- the tribe of Dan is completely missing. The purpose of the sealing of these Jews is protection from the wrath of God to follow.

To the original readers it would have indicated that god has not forgotten his people and that he would protect them.

Next: The Great Multitude

The Bible and Nakedness -- Part 6 -- Bathsheba's Bath.

This is Biblical illustration of what I have been talking about. Bathsheba is taking a bath -- back then this is usually accomplished by doing in the courtyard of the house -- from street level totally secluded. or on the roof that also had walls so it was secluded fro the street but open air to the sky. In short, Bathsheba was bathing and not suspecting that anyone would see her. Maybe she glanced up at the palace -- the one place she could be observed -- but then again in this culture and according to the law you need to bathe so you bathe. What I am saying is that she was not trying to look sensual or seduce the king.

David sees her bathing. now if we were to do the normal thing people do --"she should know better" or "what was she thinking bathing without clothes on" or something similarly stupid. But even the Bible places the blame where it belongs -- not on Bathsheba for taking a bath but on David for committing adultery, lying and murder. David's lust was the problem, not Bathsheba's nakedness.

Next: Women's Breasts.

Is Hell Justified? -- Part 1 -- The Main Questions.

On problem that people often work on in dealing with the problem of evil is hell. Now there are at least two major ways to look at hell -- punishment or annihilation. Either way though -- is hell justified? I mean how do we say God is just if God inflicts hell -- an eternal punishment -- for what we do here on earth -- temporal action?

Questions this Series Will Consider:
1. What is the nature of Hell?
2. What is Hell's Purpose?
3. How does God Relate to Hell?
4. Is Hell Justified?

I will be engaging Greg Boyd and his video series on the topic as well.

The Bible and Nakedness -- Part 5 -- Saul and David: Naked in Public

Just  a reminder, one of the most famous naked statues in the world is of King David by Michelangelo. Today this subject gets fun because of two interesting cases -- Saul and David get naked in public and in both cases God is involved.

1 Samuel 19:23-24 Chronicles Saul trying to find David but as he gets near his destination he get filled withe Spirit of God -- it has two effects: He prophesies and he strips off his clothes and lays naked all day -- notice this is what the Spirit of God causes him to do.

2 Samuel 6:12-23: This incident is a little more controversial but based on what Micah said -- in dancing before the Lord David uncovered himself. That is he showed himself. I would also note that David wore only the ephod so it is completely possible. Many modern interpreters say that in twirling around David showed his undergarments but that would not explain Micah's anger. What is puzzling is the fact that God sides with David. Micah is the one who pays by being barren the rest of her life for her outburst.

Both incidents are men naked in public -- one because of God and the other in praise to God. In the first we have God causing someone to be naked -- if getting naked in front of others nakedness is a sin in and of itself, then God just caused someone to sin. Clearly in nakedness and shame there is something else going on here. in the second, a person is exposing themselves to God and others but bears no shame.

Both actually represent something positive, the nakedness is symbolic of openness and vulnerability before God. In both cases God approved. There is some food for thought.

Next: Bathsheba's Bath

Religious Pefection vs. Passion for God

Revelation 2:1-7
The church at Ephesus had a problem. They didn't know they had a problem but they had one anyway. Jesus himself pointed out that they were truly the masters of the truth. The knew the truth, they practiced the truth and they even discovered those who presented falsehood and showed them false. But one thing cause Christ to tell them that if they didn't repent they would lose their place before him -- they had left their first love.

Ephesus was a church that had it all right -- they were religiously perfect. Their failure was the simple fact that the passion for Christ had over time wained. Jesus exhorted them to return to what they did at first. To have the same passion they did at the beginning.

There is a point we sometimes cross -- it is the point when we are doing things out of religious habit and not out of love for Christ. The change is subtle and slow to come upon us. We often do not notice it coming upon us and then all of a sudden we know there is something wrong.

It is like the married couple that does everything right but somewhere they lose their way. The communicate, they are in agreement on their direction in life, they even spend regular time together. But one night, they are sitting alone together and realize the painful distance that has developed between them. That is what Jesus is talking about -- that feeling of distance brought upon by the pursuit of religious perfection instead passion for God.

May we all learn a lesson from this -- passion for God is primary -- it is the love of God with all our strength, with all our mind, with all our soul, with all of our heart that is more important than all else.