Ah Family. It is always wonderful to have a good loving family, but there is also something to be said for the leave and cleave aspects of marriage and relationships. How much input each side of the family gets on the relationship needs to be discussed and how that will play out over time.
1. How much input into your relationship will your parents have and how much do you want them to have? At what point would you consider them meddling with your life as a couple?
2. How much time are you going to spend with family? You know it gets really tiring if a spouse comes home and their partner is not there and it happens all the time. You married the person you did and they should be the chief person in your life.
3. In what ways would you accept help from family? This is important all you life so keep on top of it. The one benefit of having a good family is support, but at what point is it going to make you a slave to the other person. What support will you give family members? How will you take care of your aging parents?
4. What family baggage does each person have? Is one from a two parent home and the other a child of divorce? It makes a difference trust me and it does not go away.
Family is always gong to be their so be prepared to discuss it and keep discussing it.
Next --Sex
Friday, June 12, 2009
Thursday, June 11, 2009
God's Problem -- Initial Thoughts
I recently picked up a copy of a book by Bart D. Ehrman called God's Problem -- How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer. Bart is an agnostic who 'converted' from Christianity and I must say Bart is very good as far laying out the problem and dealing with the 'biblical' issue of suffering and the reasons he does not believe in the God of the Bible.
On a personal note, I have kindred spirit in Bart. I see somewhat similar paths and thoughts we have had as we have 'suffered' through the problem of Evil. We have similar backgrounds as far as education and upbringing although he has gotten farther in his education than I have. His story is compelling and his arguments tough but I think there are some problems:
1. His problem with suffering follows classical lines addressing two classical Christian positions -- theodicy and penal atonement. There are other views of theodicy and the issues of the nature of God and atonement that he does not seem to consider. He does not address one of my favorite viewpoints -- open theism -- at all in the discussion.
2. He heavily relies on Higher criticism as true. In truth the Bible he is talking about is a Bible which is a combination of these views which makes the Bible into something that is unhistorical. In fact, he makes note in a couple places that he is not saying he believes in the history of an event he is talking about but that he is dealing with it in its message. Part of the problem is that the problem of suffering he has then is based not on the Bible I and most Christians have come to know and accept but one that is a combination of JEPD theory, Two Isaiah theory, etc. Not the Bible as it presents itself, but one he and liberal critics have created.
3. By the end of the book, you really get the feeling that no matter what answer you might provide to his questions he will not change his mind.
One thing I liked very much though was his treatment of Ecclesiastes in the problem -- I have seen very few works of late that do and it is refreshing to see someone bring that book into the discussion in any way and both of us like the book of Ecclesiastes very much.
I hope to write a more in depth review and engaged the issues of this book both here and on opentheism.blogspot.com. But have to read it again a couple more times to make sure I am getting him right about the issues involved.
On a personal note, I have kindred spirit in Bart. I see somewhat similar paths and thoughts we have had as we have 'suffered' through the problem of Evil. We have similar backgrounds as far as education and upbringing although he has gotten farther in his education than I have. His story is compelling and his arguments tough but I think there are some problems:
1. His problem with suffering follows classical lines addressing two classical Christian positions -- theodicy and penal atonement. There are other views of theodicy and the issues of the nature of God and atonement that he does not seem to consider. He does not address one of my favorite viewpoints -- open theism -- at all in the discussion.
2. He heavily relies on Higher criticism as true. In truth the Bible he is talking about is a Bible which is a combination of these views which makes the Bible into something that is unhistorical. In fact, he makes note in a couple places that he is not saying he believes in the history of an event he is talking about but that he is dealing with it in its message. Part of the problem is that the problem of suffering he has then is based not on the Bible I and most Christians have come to know and accept but one that is a combination of JEPD theory, Two Isaiah theory, etc. Not the Bible as it presents itself, but one he and liberal critics have created.
3. By the end of the book, you really get the feeling that no matter what answer you might provide to his questions he will not change his mind.
One thing I liked very much though was his treatment of Ecclesiastes in the problem -- I have seen very few works of late that do and it is refreshing to see someone bring that book into the discussion in any way and both of us like the book of Ecclesiastes very much.
I hope to write a more in depth review and engaged the issues of this book both here and on opentheism.blogspot.com. But have to read it again a couple more times to make sure I am getting him right about the issues involved.
Tuesday, June 9, 2009
Christians and Sexual Education
Sex. A wonderful word isn't it? I am often reminded that this I one of those things you just don't talk about in polite Christian society but then again on this subject I am a bit of a rebel.
My personal belief is that sex is best enjoyed and has its greatest fulfillment when it is marriage. The only thing that keeps it in this boundary is the will of people to do so. That said, I believe the greatest reason why sex is now out of this boundary in abundance is not that the Western world has gone sex crazy, but that Christians have in large part not given themselves to Sexual Education of their members and what Sexual Education is being offered in the world, Christians have reacted in a way that has made the situation worse. Had the church been engaged in proper sexual education we may have not had this problem in the first place.
For the majority of Christian young people growing up in your typical conservative church for the last 50 years the sexual education ha been something like this:
"Don't until your married!"
That's it.
Others when considering marriage might get a little more, if the pastor is not too embarrassed to talk about it. There might be a discussion on the purposes of sex in marriage -- keep us free from sin, produce children, etc., but then after marriage -- nothing.
Needless to say, this is not going to be adequate in a culture where sex and education on sex is on every newsstand. If you don't believe me walk by a checkout counter and check out the cover of the latest issue of Cosmo. What Christian young people, before and after marriage, began to experience is that if their going to get some real information on sex, they are going to have to search for it elsewhere -- their church is no help. What they run into in the world is often lacking in an Biblical ethics, but it is educational.
In the schools and colleges of this world this becomes more pronounced and the education given is, in my opinion, causing a great health risk for our young people through the myth that their is such a thing as safe sex through contraception. All sex has risk unless it is done by two virgins and then those two virgins keep to each other for their rest of their life. Marriage is the vehicle for this in this world as given by God.
The world is talking very frankly and openly about sex and the church better realize that to not discuss these things in an open manner without embarrassment is causing part of the problem. When discussing sex most Christians look like rank amateurs and it creates an impression, one that is rightly deserved, that we really do not know much. If they do get any impression it is that we are obsessed with the absence of sexual activity rather than what is permissible.
This needs to change:
1. We need to talk about the benefits of sexual activity in the context of marriage. Particularly the fun part of sexual activity and that is why sex should be enjoyed and pursued, not avoided, when a couple gets married. We need to show that sexual activity before marriage actually ruins this fun and promotes lack of sexual skill. Sorry people that are promiscuous have fun with sex and that cannot be denied, but I don't think they are very skilled lovers, because once they use up all they know they move on. Try keeping another person satisfied sexually for life and succeed and then you can say you are a successful lover.
2. We need to talk more openly about sex in a way that genuinely responsive to what the people are saying in the world. Too much of what we have done her is -- 'taste not, touch not, handle not" -- will worship.
3. Our young people need to hear information from us that is positive and biblically based before and after marriage about sex. I imagine some people are better natural lovers than others but knowledge helps everyone become better.
One thing I suggest is to actually take Song of Solomon seriously in what it is presenting about sexual activity. But that is a subject of another later post.
My personal belief is that sex is best enjoyed and has its greatest fulfillment when it is marriage. The only thing that keeps it in this boundary is the will of people to do so. That said, I believe the greatest reason why sex is now out of this boundary in abundance is not that the Western world has gone sex crazy, but that Christians have in large part not given themselves to Sexual Education of their members and what Sexual Education is being offered in the world, Christians have reacted in a way that has made the situation worse. Had the church been engaged in proper sexual education we may have not had this problem in the first place.
For the majority of Christian young people growing up in your typical conservative church for the last 50 years the sexual education ha been something like this:
"Don't until your married!"
That's it.
Others when considering marriage might get a little more, if the pastor is not too embarrassed to talk about it. There might be a discussion on the purposes of sex in marriage -- keep us free from sin, produce children, etc., but then after marriage -- nothing.
Needless to say, this is not going to be adequate in a culture where sex and education on sex is on every newsstand. If you don't believe me walk by a checkout counter and check out the cover of the latest issue of Cosmo. What Christian young people, before and after marriage, began to experience is that if their going to get some real information on sex, they are going to have to search for it elsewhere -- their church is no help. What they run into in the world is often lacking in an Biblical ethics, but it is educational.
In the schools and colleges of this world this becomes more pronounced and the education given is, in my opinion, causing a great health risk for our young people through the myth that their is such a thing as safe sex through contraception. All sex has risk unless it is done by two virgins and then those two virgins keep to each other for their rest of their life. Marriage is the vehicle for this in this world as given by God.
The world is talking very frankly and openly about sex and the church better realize that to not discuss these things in an open manner without embarrassment is causing part of the problem. When discussing sex most Christians look like rank amateurs and it creates an impression, one that is rightly deserved, that we really do not know much. If they do get any impression it is that we are obsessed with the absence of sexual activity rather than what is permissible.
This needs to change:
1. We need to talk about the benefits of sexual activity in the context of marriage. Particularly the fun part of sexual activity and that is why sex should be enjoyed and pursued, not avoided, when a couple gets married. We need to show that sexual activity before marriage actually ruins this fun and promotes lack of sexual skill. Sorry people that are promiscuous have fun with sex and that cannot be denied, but I don't think they are very skilled lovers, because once they use up all they know they move on. Try keeping another person satisfied sexually for life and succeed and then you can say you are a successful lover.
2. We need to talk more openly about sex in a way that genuinely responsive to what the people are saying in the world. Too much of what we have done her is -- 'taste not, touch not, handle not" -- will worship.
3. Our young people need to hear information from us that is positive and biblically based before and after marriage about sex. I imagine some people are better natural lovers than others but knowledge helps everyone become better.
One thing I suggest is to actually take Song of Solomon seriously in what it is presenting about sexual activity. But that is a subject of another later post.
Monday, June 8, 2009
The Five Continuing Conversations of Long Term Reationships -- Part 3 -- Finances
Money is one of the two biggest causes of fights in a marriage that can lead to divorce. Most couples have no common understanding of financial planning or philosophy. Agreement is critical on this issue.
1. Debt -- you should agree not to have any, but the reason you should have this conversation before you get married is -- if you are committed to being a Dave Ramsey -- "live like no one else so you can live like no one else" -- person and you future spouse is not -- YOU ARE GOING TO FIGHT. It will happen. Better convince the other person to be debt free before you tie the knot or it will be a problem.
2. Budgeting -- If you want to know what a person feels is important look at where they spend their money. Give the person you love a test question -- "If you had X dollars how would you spend it" will tell you a lot -- toys or future, poverty mind or prosperity mind. It will tell you if a person is responsible with money or a person who does not really care.
3. Work -- Career choices are important and both sides should be respected. If one person wants to stay near home and the other want to work abroad their could be a problem. Finding s way to mess your occupations and career aspirations is lifelong process that requires changes on a regular basis.
Once your married, the conversations continue because the financial situation of a couple is constantly changing. Get a plan and stick to it but don't be afraid to change the tactics as this situation changes.
Next -- In Laws
1. Debt -- you should agree not to have any, but the reason you should have this conversation before you get married is -- if you are committed to being a Dave Ramsey -- "live like no one else so you can live like no one else" -- person and you future spouse is not -- YOU ARE GOING TO FIGHT. It will happen. Better convince the other person to be debt free before you tie the knot or it will be a problem.
2. Budgeting -- If you want to know what a person feels is important look at where they spend their money. Give the person you love a test question -- "If you had X dollars how would you spend it" will tell you a lot -- toys or future, poverty mind or prosperity mind. It will tell you if a person is responsible with money or a person who does not really care.
3. Work -- Career choices are important and both sides should be respected. If one person wants to stay near home and the other want to work abroad their could be a problem. Finding s way to mess your occupations and career aspirations is lifelong process that requires changes on a regular basis.
Once your married, the conversations continue because the financial situation of a couple is constantly changing. Get a plan and stick to it but don't be afraid to change the tactics as this situation changes.
Next -- In Laws
Sunday, June 7, 2009
Open Theism: Engaging "God's Problem"
One of the strengths of open theism, in my mind, is its superiority in dealing with the problem of suffering than any other system I have come across. It was one of the reasons I rejected simple foreknowledge and embraced open theism is that God is not responsible for evil in any way other than allowing for its possibility, not eventuality.
Two days ago I came across a book by Bart D. Ehrman called God's Problem -- How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer. He is the same guy who wrote Misquoting Jesus, a book I have seen, but never read. I bought God's Problem and started to read it; however, and have decided to engage it here on Open Theism. The reason: I disagree with the title -- I do believe that God in the Bible addresses the question of suffering, but in reality the real issue is whether or not a person will have the honesty and courage to accept the answer. The real problem in my mind has always been worldview and how people look at the Bible that is the problem not the Bible itself. I think theology is at fault not the Bible itself.
I of course want to encourage anyone who wants to follow along to both buy and read the book with me. See Bart I am batting for you to make the money you deserve for asking such a noble and worthwhile question.
This issue I have long engaged and I think I have the beginnings of an answer.
Each week I will engage the book piece by piece and offer my opinion. I, of course, plan to read the whole thing this week before I start but then break it down. Don't know how long I will take but here goes.
Two days ago I came across a book by Bart D. Ehrman called God's Problem -- How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question -- Why We Suffer. He is the same guy who wrote Misquoting Jesus, a book I have seen, but never read. I bought God's Problem and started to read it; however, and have decided to engage it here on Open Theism. The reason: I disagree with the title -- I do believe that God in the Bible addresses the question of suffering, but in reality the real issue is whether or not a person will have the honesty and courage to accept the answer. The real problem in my mind has always been worldview and how people look at the Bible that is the problem not the Bible itself. I think theology is at fault not the Bible itself.
I of course want to encourage anyone who wants to follow along to both buy and read the book with me. See Bart I am batting for you to make the money you deserve for asking such a noble and worthwhile question.
This issue I have long engaged and I think I have the beginnings of an answer.
Each week I will engage the book piece by piece and offer my opinion. I, of course, plan to read the whole thing this week before I start but then break it down. Don't know how long I will take but here goes.
Thursday, June 4, 2009
The Five Continuing Conversations of Long Term Reationships -- Part 2 -- Children
Solomon wrote a Psalm -- Psalm 127 in which he states: "Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; They will not be ashamed when they speak with their enemies in the gate. " Being that he had 700 wives and 300 concubines at the end I wonder how blessed he was? I don't even want to know what the logistics of that big a family should they all have produced at least one child would be. The thought on the production of the children in the first place with one man and 1000 women is enough to boggle the mind.
In any case if your headed to marriage one of the purposes of marriage is to produce and raise children. Any long term relationship that is going to have marriage at its end needs to talk about them.
There are a few issues that need to be discussed and continue to be discussed.
1. How many children do you want? Now in this day and age it is possible to choose if you are a believer in birth control, a subject we will take up in a few seconds. it can be very annoying to one half of the relationship if one of you wants twelve kids and the other only wants one. There are also some who figure it is God's choice how many kids you have, but then again sex is required which requires the couple to engage in it. If momma says I don't want any more and dad decided to leave in the hands of God then momma may just decide that sex is no longer in the cards. This will cause conflict. See why this discussion has to continue until both agree it is time to stop?
2. How are the children to be disciplined and who is going to do it? This one is important because if you don't have agreement about how the children will be brought up you are going to have fights of your own. It is also important that both parents do the discipline and respect the discipline of the other parent when it is done. There is nothing more annoying than to punish a child and then have the other spouse rescind it or not back it up. Both better be involved -- it is not fair for one spouse to always be the disciplinarian either -- take turns.
3. Birth Control? If your thinking about marriage you better know ahead of time if your going to use birth control or not. If the future momma is expecting to and the future dad doesn't believe in it your going to have a problem. The theology you have may be important on this issue and you better get into agreement. The continuing part involves when you have had the number of children you both want -- now what? -- who is going to do some thing permanent or are you going to wait using non-permanent solutions in case you change your mind?
4. Once the children leave the home and get married themsleves what are you going to do and how involved will you be?
In all cases agreement is important and as the situation changes you need to keep talking.
Next -- Finances
In any case if your headed to marriage one of the purposes of marriage is to produce and raise children. Any long term relationship that is going to have marriage at its end needs to talk about them.
There are a few issues that need to be discussed and continue to be discussed.
1. How many children do you want? Now in this day and age it is possible to choose if you are a believer in birth control, a subject we will take up in a few seconds. it can be very annoying to one half of the relationship if one of you wants twelve kids and the other only wants one. There are also some who figure it is God's choice how many kids you have, but then again sex is required which requires the couple to engage in it. If momma says I don't want any more and dad decided to leave in the hands of God then momma may just decide that sex is no longer in the cards. This will cause conflict. See why this discussion has to continue until both agree it is time to stop?
2. How are the children to be disciplined and who is going to do it? This one is important because if you don't have agreement about how the children will be brought up you are going to have fights of your own. It is also important that both parents do the discipline and respect the discipline of the other parent when it is done. There is nothing more annoying than to punish a child and then have the other spouse rescind it or not back it up. Both better be involved -- it is not fair for one spouse to always be the disciplinarian either -- take turns.
3. Birth Control? If your thinking about marriage you better know ahead of time if your going to use birth control or not. If the future momma is expecting to and the future dad doesn't believe in it your going to have a problem. The theology you have may be important on this issue and you better get into agreement. The continuing part involves when you have had the number of children you both want -- now what? -- who is going to do some thing permanent or are you going to wait using non-permanent solutions in case you change your mind?
4. Once the children leave the home and get married themsleves what are you going to do and how involved will you be?
In all cases agreement is important and as the situation changes you need to keep talking.
Next -- Finances
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
The Five Continuing Conversations of Long Term Reationships -- Part 1 -- Religion
Weddings are wonderful things but I sometimes wonder if people understand the real issues involved in a long term relationship. I say long term relationship because my belief is a couple should be starting these conversations if they think they might be heading to something longer than a couple dates. The moment your thinking "I could be serious about this person" you should start having these conversations and they should last through dating, engagement and into marriage and beyond. The reason --these areas will be either strengths of a relationship or weaknesses based on whether or not you talk about them.
I do very few weddings because I still maintain traditional understandings of engagement and marriage and don't compromise on them. If your not into these understandings just head to the justice of the peace or magistrate or whatever and get married, don't call me because I am not going to bless a marriage God will not. To think God is going to bless something that hasn't been entered into in the way he prescribes is just silly.
1. I won't marry people who are living together -- 'but were not having sex." Then you won't mind moving out will you? Don't con me, the only reason a couple lives together is sex. It is about Eros love, so don't' lie to me please. One of you move out and commit yourself to refrain from sex until the wedding date and come back to me.
2. I don't marry people who have been divorced for unbiblical reasons -- a) Marital unfaithfulness and b) if the unbelieving spouse wanted the divorce.
3. I don't marry people unless they have had counseling and if they get it from me its a nine session process. Part of that process is these five continuing conversations.
The first conversation is religion -- if you don't have religious compatibility it is not going to work. Many problems result from this -- morals, ethics, child rearing, etc. Any issue involving what faith you have and your central core values is an issue of religion.
1. Suffice it to say Christians should not be marrying non Christians. Sorry it is going to lead to major problems and violates the principle of not being unequally yoked.
2. Christians that marry each other should at length discuss the differences between their beliefs and consider what implications that will have on their lives together.
3. Which church will you go to together? Sorry I think when one spouse goes one way and the other goes another it is bad business. It is important for any future children that they go where their parents go together. Church should be a family affair.
4. One note on politics -- for some people politics is their religion -- this is particularly true of secular liberals.
5. The significance of marriage being a picture of Christ and His church needs to be reflected on and acted on.
Once these issues are decided their needs to be a discussion on faith in the relationship for the rest of life:
1. Devotions together are important.
2. Talking about spiritual troubles and testimonies together is a great way to grow together so talk about your walk with God often both as individuals and as a couple.
3. Discussing how faith and the Bible should be applied to life is important.
Next: Part 2 -- Children
I do very few weddings because I still maintain traditional understandings of engagement and marriage and don't compromise on them. If your not into these understandings just head to the justice of the peace or magistrate or whatever and get married, don't call me because I am not going to bless a marriage God will not. To think God is going to bless something that hasn't been entered into in the way he prescribes is just silly.
1. I won't marry people who are living together -- 'but were not having sex." Then you won't mind moving out will you? Don't con me, the only reason a couple lives together is sex. It is about Eros love, so don't' lie to me please. One of you move out and commit yourself to refrain from sex until the wedding date and come back to me.
2. I don't marry people who have been divorced for unbiblical reasons -- a) Marital unfaithfulness and b) if the unbelieving spouse wanted the divorce.
3. I don't marry people unless they have had counseling and if they get it from me its a nine session process. Part of that process is these five continuing conversations.
The first conversation is religion -- if you don't have religious compatibility it is not going to work. Many problems result from this -- morals, ethics, child rearing, etc. Any issue involving what faith you have and your central core values is an issue of religion.
1. Suffice it to say Christians should not be marrying non Christians. Sorry it is going to lead to major problems and violates the principle of not being unequally yoked.
2. Christians that marry each other should at length discuss the differences between their beliefs and consider what implications that will have on their lives together.
3. Which church will you go to together? Sorry I think when one spouse goes one way and the other goes another it is bad business. It is important for any future children that they go where their parents go together. Church should be a family affair.
4. One note on politics -- for some people politics is their religion -- this is particularly true of secular liberals.
5. The significance of marriage being a picture of Christ and His church needs to be reflected on and acted on.
Once these issues are decided their needs to be a discussion on faith in the relationship for the rest of life:
1. Devotions together are important.
2. Talking about spiritual troubles and testimonies together is a great way to grow together so talk about your walk with God often both as individuals and as a couple.
3. Discussing how faith and the Bible should be applied to life is important.
Next: Part 2 -- Children
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